Intro: The Buffalo Brews Podcast.

Jason: You are listening to Barely Getting Started, part of the Buffalo Bruise podcast. I am Jason here with Craig Altobello of Magic Bear Beer Cellar. We are at Magic Bear, seven point nine nine Seneca Street here in Larkinville, Buffalo, New York. We are in series fourteen. We're talking about paler pints, and we are on our second episode where we have. I gave you like a goofy thing before we started, where Bree and I watch a little trash TV. So big fans of Love Island, Australia. So Sophie Monk would say, and maybe this will hit the Australian algorithm too when I say this, but it was a decision. If you're going to stay with your partner or stay with the beer that we talked about at the end of the last episode, or are we going to twist and we're going to twist and we're going to go with a different direction here for this second beer of this series?

Craig: Yeah. The, uh, you were bringing up the beer that I plan on doing next. And I was like, hey, do you want to do that one next? Or do you want to do the one I want to do next? And, um, Jason's very nice by letting me do what I want to do, but it's, I always try to look at things in the course of historical, but also how do you tell the story? Right. Uh, when I host my classes here at Magic Bear and I start by telling people, you know, if they, especially if they ask what a cicerone is, you know, we're tour guides of beer. And as a part of the tour guide of beer, I'm offering a historical as well as cultural approach of what we're consuming and trying to a just give you good beer, you know, hey, we've got good beer here, come back, drink and buy to go. But also, like we started with the previous beer and we were able to talk about the journey from British and English pale ale into the American kind of version of that. And even before we get into this, because we're going to do an American pale ale. Uh, the Edmund's oast, which we'll save till next episode is a blonde or golden ale. And I'll touch on that because you'll see how I kind of do my twist or my little pivot, um, to get to that beer. But what I was kind of thinking is, all right, how do we segue from English pale ales to American pale ales? Well, we kind of had an American brewed style of English pale ale, which I feel that first beer was, whereas this is now an American American pale ale, which I always wonder if other countries. I do know that other countries try to brew New England IPAs and they call them Nepas. When I was traveling there, like we really like the Nepa as well as an IPA, they call it IPA. They're like, we've been brewing IPAs and Nepas and it sounds like a Doctor Seuss book. Almost. I almost just kept with the book.

Jason: I think we got an idea here.

Craig: Yeah, but I'm always interested. All right. You know, Americans, we're brewing all these Belgian style beers and trying to make German Pils and German lagers. Do the Germans ever try to make an American macro lager? And I think I know that answer. And it's nine. But, um the English, are they going to try and brew an American style beer? And I think it's. No. And I do feel that some of you know, of all the styles, the the hazy IPA and, you know, the bitter, more bitter West Coast American IPA. I think that those when I've been overseas, what I've seen breweries try to emulate one, because they're just very popular beers when people. It's like hot wings. When people first try chicken wings, they dip their toe in. And then if you get them addicted to the heat and it's kind of like, oh man, I got a, I got an itch that only some spicy hot wings are going to scratch. And those chili Fritos and you name it. You got the you got the itch for something spicy. Now, if you got the itch for something hoppy and something bitter, some beers just won't do.

Jason: I'm a huge fan of the Westie.

Craig: So yeah. So this is, you know, the next beer we're going to do is it's an American Pale Ale. So much so. And I think I've talked about this with, you know, IPAs for days. They're calling this a West Coast pale ale because I think what's gotten lost a little bit, and people will ask me about this when, you know, some beers are called West Coast IPAs, some are American IPAs, some are New England IPAs, some are being called East Coast IPAs. Then the pale ales, there's American Pale Ale, then there's hazy, pale ales, and I look at hazy, pale ales as kind of like, I mean, this is almost akin to the all day IPAs, you know, your, your session IPA. That's just it's a, it's the little brother to the IPA when actually IPA was the big brother, the American Pale Ale came first. Then it became the American IPA is a different style and higher ABV and a lot more stuff. If you want to learn about that, go check out IPAs for Days are Only six episode season. The American Pale Ale is more of a showcase for the West Coast hops, where you see these hazy, pale ales. And I'm like, man, this is just another way to sell me a hazy beer. It's just less alcohol and it's less bitter. It's like the juicy pale ale. So to me, when people say West Coast, I think they want you to know this is a bitter beer, not a, you know, make your face turn inside out bitter beer. But let's, let's get your expectations to a certain level, because an American pale ale could take on a lot of different things. So you've got people saying hazy because they want you to say, hey, no, this is more of a juicy beer. It's not going to be so bitter and not so malty. Then you've got people saying this West Coast, because, hey, it is going to be old school and kind of more focused and a little bit more bitter and citrus and pine hops. Then there's just people that are like, hey man, it's pale ale. Hey man, it's an IPA, it's American IPA. So you don't really know. You crack it open and that's where, you know, a lot of times I go online, I check on Untappd or something else and I'm like, what does that really look like? Because I'm also trying to put them on the shelf or put them on my draft list in the right order, because we always do light to dark and try to get people. So it's a little easier to decide. So sometimes I have to check up on it. So what I've kind of found is if they're saying West Coast, it is, hey, you have an expectation of this is going to be a little bit maltier, a little bit more bitter. If it's just an American pale ale or pale ale, it could be a crap toss. It could be one way or the other. If they say hazy or juicy, you know, it's, it's easy to tell that, hey, it's a pale ale because what it comes down to is the base recipe, the grains that you're using, you know what ABV you want to get to because IPAs, they're typically six and a half percent. So if you're a five percent, you either need to make it a session IPA, or you are calling it like a hazy pale ale versus an India pale ale, because it's not it's not in that category, even though there's American IPAs. One category, American Double IPA. Then there's hazy IPA and Hazy double IPA. And typically those are four different categories now. So the American Pale Ale, this is the old school because to me, not just to me, to everyone. This is like one of the true American beers. Now, you had cream ales like American Light lagers coming around probably a little bit prior to this. But when you talk about those nineties craft beer movements and we're talking the craft beer now, there's other American beers that predate this style. So I want to make it clear that I'm kind of talking about the craft beer timeline. So when was that? So like nineteen seventies, you got a lot of people traveling, trying good beers overseas and saying, hey, I'm kind of sick of the macro lager and all these big brand name beers, and I want something with more flavor. So a lot of the, you know, home brewing was outlawed or legal until outlaw always sounds so much worse than illegal. It's like, you know, outlawed. Like, hey, you brewing your own beer? I'll see you at high noon. And next thing you know, you're getting shot with a six six shot revolver.

Jason: Escort you out of town.

Craig: Versus, um, you know, it's illegal, which means I might get a fine or. I doubt you're getting arrested unless you're doing something real crazy about it. But yeah, home brewing was frowned upon. Not really enforced too heavily, but like, you're not. If you just brewed it and drank it, you're fine. If you're brewing it and trying to sell it now it's you're, you're, you're, you're tempting fate. So the craft beer act around there, I think it was Jimmy Carter.

Jason: It was.

Craig: Carter. Yeah. It was.

Jason: Um, brought that up in my, um, US presidents and the alcohol race episode.

Craig: There you.

Jason: Go.

Craig: Yeah. See? All right. It's good. It's good to have both of us here. The, uh, it made it legal. And what that meant was. Okay, people have been making some home brewed beers that wanted to take the next step. They could. They could open a taproom or a brewpub, and they could bring the craft American beer to the masses when it used to be like, hey, man, try this beer I brewed. And like, some people would spit it out because they just weren't ready for something.

Jason: Um, others would go blind. Yeah. You know.

Craig: But then there's like, oh man, this is, this is really tasty. This is really good. How do I get some more of this? And I got to brew your own, man. You got to make it. Or now such and such beer from such and such brewery has this available and you can get it. And one of the first and what I think is the exemplar is Sierra Nevada out from the West Coast. You know, they're in North Carolina now, but originally West Coast, their American Pale ale, because in the early nineties, when the first big craft beer boom happened. And I think it was the number one entry in the Great American Beer Festival until the IPA came out. But American Pale Ales were kind of like the first craft American beer where we were taking a recipe and utilizing American ingredients, but also in a way that was more than just, hey, how do I replicate a beer that I'm used to overseas here in America? And that's what happened with like the American lager. It was, you know, more the eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds, where German settlers are wanting for their pilsners from home. And they had to use more widely. And, you know, they were a little frugal and they had to buy stuff that they can get readily available in America to make their lager. And it spawned a new style, but it was still just how do we replicate from what's home? Whereas this American Pale Ale style, or the West Coast Pale Ale, so to speak, is, hey, we're we're trying to make something taste tastes different. This is different. And and one of the main things that made it taste different is the American hops. So we talked about Centennial, but they were called the hops because there was Chinook, cascade, Centennial, a bunch of different ones coming out of the Pacific Northwest. And this one. Uh, I keep saying this one. So let's talk about the beer and then I'll talk about the hops. The hops are going to be Cascade and El Dorado, but cascade being like one of the old school West Coast ish Seattle and Portland, Oregon, kind of breweries really pumping out beers like that. But we're drinking a beer from Alternate Ending Brewery out of new Jersey. So a new Jersey brewery, and it's called gigawatt. And I'm not gonna lie, I was a looking to find like an American pale ale. But then on this can is the Delorean and a like toxic waste symbol that was used quite a bit in the back to the future movies. So to me, I was like, oh, that's a cool can. And this beer did sell quickly. I'm glad I saved one for this episode because it is a really good American Pale Ale.

Jason: It's a great. And it's a great it's a great cannot thing to as well. Cannot just attracts. Oh yeah.

Craig: Yeah. It just has this, um, eye catching kind of sheen to it as well. It's got that little bit of like metallic and it's, it's not a matte finish. It's, it's definitely got a little shine to it, but it says from nineteen fifty five to twenty fifty five, this is what we pour into our tank. So that is a, a reference to, um, the good old, uh, back to the future series in nineteen fifty five.

Jason: I also like the back is like a ticket stub. Yeah. So that's pretty cool too.

Craig: So what did you, you looked up alternate ending and have some alternate ending.

Jason: So yeah, it was the, uh, the former. So it was listed as the former matteawan, uh, movie theater in Aberdeen, new Jersey, uh, spot where generations of local families spent their weekends watching films on the big screen. When the theater closed the building, it could have become just a generic retail space where it was located, but instead alternate ending. Beer company stopped, stepped in, and with a concept that honored the history of the location without erasing it. The original theater seats are still there. Um, they're repurposed into the distinct seating areas throughout the brewery. Saw a couple of pictures of the inside of it. Visitors submitted pictures. Really interesting concept that they've got there. Uh, so it's a destination brew pub. Like I said, inside of a former theater, they host movie nights and they also do movie themed trivia nights there as well. I saw that they also do like these movie themed murder mystery parties as well. So they're doing all kinds of stuff. Their motto is brewery eatery movies. That's a pretty like it pretty, pretty well, it's pretty well thought up. So yeah, it's a family atmosphere. Um, apparently food, good beer.

Craig: It reminds me of was it twisted rail out in Geneva there in an old movie theater.

Jason: Yeah. They're in.

Craig: An old. I think it's twisted.

Jason: I think it's twisted rail. Yeah. So they.

Craig: Got a couple locations.

Jason: Where the where the screen was is actually where their tank room is. Yeah.

Craig: Um, they still have the big marquee on the outside. Yeah. That's always been cool to me.

Jason: Yeah. I think that's a, that's a good, I think yeah, that's a good example. Really good example.

Craig: So yeah, that was a nice lob over to you. I knew you had something to say about that. But yeah, you are just you have it on deck ready to go. Yeah I love it.

Jason: Yeah.

Craig: So let's talk a little bit more about the American Pale. I you know, touched upon it in the last episode. And then we're now focusing in on this one. So the American Pale Ale, you're going to have a little bit more crystal malts, so to speak. So that's going to give it a little bit of a darker color. So much so that the American Pale ale would range from like a light gold to dark gold to even amber. And eventually it spawned its own, another style called Amber ale. So a lot of pale ales were more amber. And there needed to be because, you know, people talk about styles like, you know, why is there this and this and so many different styles. And some of it is so they can be judged properly. Judge. Apples to apples. But you know, more so like I said, to give consumers a concept of what you're trying to sell them. So am I buying a pale ale that is looks like an IPA? AM I buying a pale ale that looks a little bit darker, or am I buying an amber ale?

Jason: Look at that.

Craig: I'm getting pretty good at these. Two for two, two for Tuesday. So Jigawa West Coast Pale Ale alternate and ending in Aberdeen, new Jersey. So definitely a little bit more opaque. Mhm. I mean, I wouldn't say it's like cloudy or it's cloudy, but it's not that super opaque that looks like.

Jason: Can't see.

Craig: My fingers.

Jason: Through this.

Craig: Like, yeah.

Jason: Like the last one.

Craig: But it, it is definitely a little bit darker in color. This is kind of like the room I have painted here called old world gold. Um, not as brown as the room we're in, but it is definitely got this dark gold. No real red. You know, I'm lifting it to the light. It's not. I wouldn't confuse this with an amber ale, but this is definitely here's where I talked about that triangle test last episode where you put two beers that are the same and one beer different. Last beer we drank would be hard for me to tell the difference, unless I had a bunch of lagers next to it from a lager and ale. I'm looking at this, and there's nothing lager about this other than the head is nice, light and white, but both beers have poured a very nice sustaining head, which is always good to see. So American pale ales, you want some malt? Okay. Where the beer we had prior to this, it was very white bread and bread crust. I'm hoping because I don't think I've had this beer actually yet, because it was flying off the shelf just because the way it looked, I believe the cannot, but um, a little bit more sweet malt, making it more like bread crust, but not, not toasted yet. You know, we're not getting really toasty. Toasty beers are more like your red ales, you know, obviously porters are going to be roasty, but toasty are the ambers when they're actually called ambers or red ales. To me, that's when you really cross the line from bread crust to toasted bread. So we might have, you know, a little bit more of a darker than just your American white bread. But, um, we'll see a little sniff, a little cheers.

Jason: Mhm.

Craig: This one, you can taste a little bit. You can smell a little bit more of that cascade, a little bit more citrus on the nose, where the first beer just kind of smelled like malted barley.

Jason: Cheers.

Craig: Cheers. Oh, yeah.

Jason: See, that hits home right there.

Craig: So this is not an American West Coast IPA where West Coast IPA. I feel like the first sip you take it is. Oh yeah. You know, there's a lot of lot of memes and stuff out there making fun of West Coast IPAs. People just call them IPAs, right? Where it's like they're licking a tree and then biting into a grapefruit. And they're like, oh yeah, let's can this. How do we can this? This has bitterness to it. Now, that first beer had a little bit of bitter finish to balance. This has grapefruit. Okay, this has grapefruit. It has a little pith when we talk about the citrus, but not so much so that you're left with this super just, you know, people that are just like that spicy, gotta scratch that hot wings ish itch or they gotta scratch that bitter itch. This is this is a good dinner beer. This is something that's going to stand up to a lot of different meats, different fried foods, because the bitterness will cut through it. But that citrus man, those West Coast hops. And it's a showcase for the American hop profile, which instead of earthy, herbal and a little bit minty and woodsy, it is earthy pine, citrusy grapefruit, a little bit of pith, a little bit of resin. You get a lot of that here, but not not a straight throat chop to the neck. It is a subtle, malty. I don't even want to say malty. It's it's just it's got some sweetness to it that then is backed up and balanced by the citrus and the pithy bitterness of that citrus. So it kind of eliminates the sweetness, but that's where you get a nice well-balanced beer. And this is actually a very this is good. This was a I took my first sip. I think we both were like, whoa. Yeah, because you kind of missed it.

Jason: I've already gone in for my second, you know, just see if it's a good two sipper. Um, yeah, I might invoke the twin, the Twin pines um, clause in this. So I just, you know, going for the cheesy line here.

Craig: Well I, when I, um, you know, before I really got into craft beer, I mean, I hate saying this, but I mean, thinking about craft beer now, I just think about before craft beer bc the, um, I was just younger and it makes me feel how old I am.

Jason: Before Kraft.

Craig: Before Kraft, you know, I wasn't the biggest beer drinker. I was a big blue moon drinker because I liked it, you know? But I was like, I don't really want beer. And then I'd go to a wedding and I wasn't like, there was a couple of beer options. And there was, I remember the first time having a Sierra Nevada Pale ale. It wasn't ready, I wasn't ready. I was just drinking it. And I was just like, man, I guess this is what men drink. And I'm just a little boy still. And then I drank a few of them, and it has a little bit more alcohol than a light lager that, you know, is typically drinking. In my college days, the four point one and two percenters, because this is a five point two, so a standard beer, but you know, you're dancing and, you know, give you a little liquid courage. And I was enjoying it after a few of them. And I was like, I can kind of see, you know, same thing when it's like, man, who ordered the hot wings? I'm definitely a medium or a mild guy. And next thing you know, you're eating a hot wing and your nose is dripping and you need that extra napkin. And you're like, where's the celery? I'm like, never eating celery unless we order hot wings. I'm like, I need some celery and blue cheese to just get me where I need to be. But now you're on your third or fourth one and it's like, well, if I continue to eat them, it's good. It's when I stop. And that's kind of like the bitterness of these beers. This one, we've been drinking craft beer for so long now that, you know, I wouldn't look at this and be like, oh man, this is bitter. I just it was it was surprisingly, like, brought us both back a little bit to like, wow, what a nice balanced a little bit of malt, a little bit of bitterness, nice carbonation, good little color on it. Not amber at all yet not light gold. It's it's just this nice treasure chest gold. And it is still sticking the head sticking to my glass. And it kind of kind of is a, just a good testament to an American craft beer. And you can see why in the early and mid nineties. This was what Americans tip their hat at. And they're like, this is the beer we're making. And then, of course, we take things to the next level because there was the IPA for English. Like that was their next iteration. They had a pale ale, and then they made it the India Pale Ale. And that recipe surfaced and you're like, hey, Americans are loving this American Pale ale. Why don't we try this IPA? And the next thing you know, people are all about IPAs. And then the world changes again where, hey, we made a hazy version of this IPA, and it opens it up to people that just aren't into that bitterness, like, oh, I really like this, this, this, this is really broadened my horizons. And it's, it's also not that I'm glad that they've distinguished between styles because they are completely different beers. The hazy IPA and the American IPA and then the hazy Pale Ale versus the American Pale Ale. I don't think hazy Pale ale is its own style yet, and many competitions. I think it's just a good marketing technique to say this is a lower ABV beer. The grains that we're using match more of a pale ale. But hey, we're, we're choosing juicy, uh, aroma and flavor hops versus anything that's going to be super bitter. And your expectation is now, oh, when I pour this and it just looks like a hazy IPA, I'm like, oh, okay. Well, it's a hazy pale ale. It makes sense now versus if it said American Pale ale or just pale ale, and you pour it and be like, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. This is exactly what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be a little bit more intense because they said the West Coast Pale Ale. But I think it's one of those where if you don't, if you don't give a nudge and say, hey, this is kind of like the American pale ale of yesteryear, the pale ale versus the Hazy Pale Ale. It lets you know what to expect. And I'm actually going to put it up to the can. It's almost a similar gold as the can is.

Jason: Yeah, pretty.

Craig: Close. But yeah, you know, it is a true American beer, a pioneer, so to speak. And those pioneers of craft brewing who the home brewers that were breaking the law to give us such things like this. And then.

Jason: The outlaws.

Craig: Yeah, do do.

Speaker 4 Do do do do.

Craig: These guys that were just trailblazing and started the craft beer era in the boom of the nineties, which unfortunately it started. We're seeing the same thing. Like when people ask me about breweries closing and what do you think? What do you think? I'm like? I think it's just a cyclical, just like every other thing in hospitality.

Jason: Ebbs and flows.

Craig: Ebbs and flows. Okay. Early nineties. People are going nuts. Breweries are opening up. They're making beers like this. And the big draw is like, wow, there's way more going on than what I'm used to in my beers. Mhm. Breweries open up. They're opening left and right. What happens? Saturation. What happens after saturation? Well, the really good breweries endure their best. Yeah, the best practices become the industry standard. The places that opened up to quick or have okay, beer or we're chasing it, so to speak, just for the glory or the the money. They didn't make it. And then you have these breweries that stood the test of time and they're scooping up assets and they're like, okay, now we're opening our second taproom and they endured. And, you know, I think the early two thousand was some of the first times you were seeing more closures than openings. And it kind of just hovered for a while until about twenty twelve thirteen, which was like the second craft beer boom. Same thing here. That's when, you know, right around there, maybe a couple years earlier had community beer works and Big Ditch around twenty fourteen. Thin Man, you had your Hamburg resurgence, all of them in that like twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen time frame, which is now ten years ago. And like I said, that's what makes me like think, oh man, I'm old. But you had this second boom, and we are now seeing the recoil of that.

Jason: The bubble has now burst.

Craig: And it's yeah, it's really been just like the last three or four years. So you had about a ten year boom from like the nineties to the aughts. Now the, the twenty fifteen to the early twenty twenty, like, let's call it twenty fourteen to twenty twenty four is really the next decade that really saw a lot of expansion and growth in the industry. And here we are, twenty twenty six. And unfortunately, it seems like the consolidation and the closing of places is happening much faster than any of the openings, but there's still openings you're seeing.

Jason: I mean, you're and you're seeing more partnerships. Um, you know, I know like West End ended up in kind of absorbing into Rusty Nicole. So did Lily Belle Meade's and now you've got flying bison ironically, kitty corner across the street during that uh, that surprised shut down. Now their intellectual property and recipes have gone to Hamburg uh, brewing just a you know, as a matter of keeping the recipes and that name alive. Yeah.

Craig: Some some Buffalo history. Staying in Buffalo.

Jason: Uh, I think Bree did the research for one of our, I think, uh, our last episode, um, we were at, at one point in New York state at almost five hundred and fifty breweries. Now we're under, I think we're just south of four hundred eighty. If I remember the statistic that she pulled up. So it's, you know, it's it's happening. The stronger surviving. There still are breweries that are opening. I mean, we've just had in the last year, we've just had one open in Niagara Falls. We've had we've had a few openings. Um, in.

Craig: Oh yeah. It's, it's just, it's weird how things change where coming out of the pandemic, it felt like every month a new brewery opened. Mhm. And you're like, oh, okay. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. And now, you know, the tone is different, but it feels like every month there's a brewery closing. You're like, oh, yeah. Okay. so the tones definitely changed. The climate's changed. I mean, a lot of it is it's hard to convince people to pay more money for a beer that is, you know, expendable income when the times get tough, when you got to get rid of some stuff. Sure. There's there's people that they're weathering the storm and they're good and they're still drinking their twenty five, thirty dollars for Pax. Then there's a lot of people that are like, you know what? That, uh, fifteen dollars thirty pack with the Bogo deal, it's looking pretty good right now. Yeah. And, but give them one of these. And you know what? We might just see him back out for a beer here and there because I, I me and you, I was like at the same time we took a sip and we're just like, oh wow. Yeah, that is, that is exciting beer, you know?

Jason: And when I was doing, when I was doing my research and talking about the history with them being a former movie theater, I didn't know that I had had a beer of theirs that I drank pretty recently, which is because this is part of one of their core beers that they have. And obviously everything's got a movie theme to it, but Royal Rug, which is a pilsner that they produce, it's, um, uh, a nod to The Big Lebowski. Uh, they have Vaya Vaya con Dios, which is a West Coast IPA, which, uh, they're huge fans of Keanu Reeves, like everything he's ever done. So this beer is supposed to, like, umbrella all of his work. And then the one that I had that I didn't realize was in my fridge till I saw the can art was, uh, Amity beer. Okay, which is their jaws themed lager. Uh, so I had that. And then, um, obviously, you know, and realize who they were until that can, I'm like, okay, now, now it connects.

Craig: Starts making some sense.

Jason: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, this was a pleasant surprise. I'm glad we actually went second on this one here.

Craig: Well, that's where, you know, so what I wanted to do was kind of show English pale ale. American pale ale. Where did the English pale ale. So this was like the kind of the tradition or the sorry, the transition, uh, almost a tradition now because this feels like a beer of yesteryear. But we're, we're seeing quite a bit of comeback. So much so that they're putting on the can West coast. And I like I said many, many times now West Coast is kind of saying this is the old school original interpretation of this style, not the newer and even the newer. It's like ten years old, you know, we're going back to thirty six years ago, right? Yeah, yeah. To get to this style of beer where it's like hazy IPAs really started to take off and the, you know, two thousand and eight nine around around there, I would say. So two different countries, two different interpretations of a lighter colored beer, this being much better than the English bitter, but not very bitter compared to what's available. So it does get a little convoluted. But, you know, we wanted to wrap this up and kind of summarize what we've done is we've had very easy drinking, almost akin to a lager style ale with the Elk artist and the American ale or the American Bitter. And that's kind of like your American or sorry, your English style pale ale to a very grapefruit pine resin, but not in your face so much well balanced with a little bit of malt background to it. Again, not many hop notes or sorry, not many yeast notes. Not too fruity outside of that, like hop, citrus and grapefruit. Not too, uh. Definitely no real spices or yeasty aspects to it when it comes to the phenols. But we saw what Americans did using American hops and stuff that you would find in the first renditions of the Pale Ale in America, hence the American Pale Ale, and now what most are calling West Coast pale ales.

Jason: That's up just like that. We're halfway through this. This series.

Craig: We're riding a.

Jason: Bike two down and two to go. Uh, so, you know, at the end of the last episode, we were talking about where we were going to go. You know, that that is now in the past. But I guess now we're going to go back to what's the future now? And then the.

Speaker 4 What a two cheesy jokes in one episode.

Jason: What?

Speaker 4 It was planned.

Craig: All.

Speaker 4 Along. Yeah.

Jason: Right. And, uh, so they, so we will go from, uh, we will go from Pittsburgh to Aberdeen, new Jersey, and then we're heading to Charleston, South Carolina for the next episode. And in the meantime, and, uh, we would like to say to you, cheers.