Jason:

The Buffalo Brews Podcast. From Chicago to Buffalo, more so one of your neighbors. Yeah.

Right here in Larkinville.

Craig:

Right down the road.

Jason:

Yeah. We are talking smoky sips and you are listening to Barely Getting Started on the Buffalo Brews Podcast. I am Jason and I'm talking with Craig Altabello of Magic Bear Beer Cellar.

We are on a batch recording day at 799 Seneca Street in Larkinville. And then if you go just up the hill up to Myrtle Avenue, you'll find Buffalo Brewing Company, which is the site of our next beer that we're featuring in Smoky Sips.

Craig:

Yes. So Buffalo Brewing Company, always with their quintessential Buffalo architectural cans. They kind of replicate different buildings in Buffalo.

So John Domrez, he is kind of like a Buffalo and beer historian and then that makes him a Buffalo beer historian. Really knows his stuff. Doing a lot of cool things with the Old Traver Brewery.

I believe he also has the rights and owns the Simon Pure name now.

Jason:

Yes.

Craig:

He's been brewing that beer and that is now going to be distributed more widely. It's also going into Wegmans and kind of like with the throwback beers. So kudos to him for keeping the history going and spreading the craft beer of yesteryear with today's consumer.

And this beer is actually kind of how I met John. John is actually the first brewer that I physically brewed with. I do a ton of collaborations, but you know, I read, you know, I was just following a lot of stuff going on in Larkinville right before Magic Beer opened just to kind of get myself indoctrined with the area and, you know, started following Buffalo Brewing.

I really liked them. Kind of like Dovetail in Chicago, Buffalo Brewing really. Now they have some one-offs, you know, I think we did a Punczky Stout from them and they do a Loganberry Ale and they have these, you know, they do a Hazy IPA, but they're more a traditional Czech German.

And in this case, a Polish beer. So kind of like Dovetail with their Continental styles. Same thing here where he is trying to brew traditional styles.

So when I was studying for the Cicerone, I mean, everything was theory. I'm reading books, you know, I'm buying grains and chewing on grains and trying to learn it that way. But I was like, yeah, it's just, you know, you got to get involved in and when you really want to know something, just really immerse yourself.

Some people like chips. Some people like nuts. Some people are like me.

Jason:

A handful of grains.

Craig:

Just a handful of grains. Pinch between the cheek and gum there. Yeah.

Like a good old, got a horse, name is Sam. Don't know the rest, but it's on the Erie Canal. But there's like little kits you can try and it just, you know, the different types of malts and then, you know, you try them and they're sweet.

Sometimes you go on brewery tours, that's what they'll do. They're like, oh, try some of this. And it's like, really?

Okay. It's kind of dusty. But, you know, you'll do anything for that free beer at the end of that tour.

Jason:

Me, I like the hot mash that comes out of the tank and I'll take a big old pinch and just put that in my mouth.

Craig:

There you go.

Jason:

I feel like I've been just eating like popcorn for the last half hour, so I'm picking kernels out of my teeth.

Craig:

And if you've ever been to a brewery right after they've done a brew and you can kind of smell that spent grain and the malt kind of sugar in the air, it's just, you know, same as if you were in a house that had fresh baked cookies or fresh baked bread. It's fresh brewed beer and it's got that, you know, take me back to win type vibe where it's, you know, brings up memories or you can kind of taste the beer as you're smelling him. And in this case, I was bugging this guy because I went in to buy this beer and then talk to him.

So it's during the pandemic. He's wearing a mask. I'm wearing a mask.

I tell him who I am. I'm probably going to move in if all things go well down the road. And I tell him about my journey of trying to become a Cicerone.

And, you know, if you ever need free labor, I'd love to come help because right now I just know about brewing through books and videos. But I would gladly come in and work a day and just to, you know, pick your brain and help me. And, you know, it just kind of puts theory into practice, especially when I had a big exam coming up on him.

So I think, you know, he was like, yeah, sure, whatever. But I kept bugging him. But I did go for this.

It's called, for short, a lot of people call it Grodd, G-R-O-D, but it's G-R-O-D-Z-I-S-K-I-E. So all the times I've looked it up, I believe it's pronounced or close to pronounced as a Grodd G-S-K-I-A. So a Grodd G-S-K-I-A, Grodd G-S-K-I-A.

This is his 1976 Grodd G-S-K-I-A. His beers typically have a date associated with them that has something to do with some Buffalo history. But this is his Grodd G-S-K-I-A.

It's only three and a half percent and it's a Polish beer. And I had seen it. I have heard of it, but I haven't seen anybody brew it.

Dovetail does have a Grodd G-S-K-I-A and I did have it while I was there. They have not, I have not seen it for distribution yet, but it was nice because I was able to kind of compare to John's here at Buffalo Brewing. But it's nickname is the Polish Champagne.

So it's supposed to be very light, very crisp. It is a low ABV smoked wheat ale. So highly carbonated.

I like the fact that it's under four percent, so it's almost like a table beer. It's just one of those good drinking beers. Doesn't have a lot of alcohol, but then that smoke, it brings a ton of flavor.

So I saw him post about it. I said, oh my goodness, he's got a Grodd G-S-K-I-A, I'm going to get it. So I go to buy a four pack off of him, shoot in the breeze with him.

I go pick up something else a couple of months later or whatnot, and I keep bugging him. And then, you know, I got his number, his email, and I was, you know, I usually give everybody three, you know, three tries. You know, the first time I feel like people just think it's, it's just a pleasantry.

And then the second one is like, oh, maybe this guy's serious. And then when I ask you a third time, you should either realize that I'm being serious, but I also give up after that because I'm not going to be a bother or pester anyone too much. If they're not, yeah, if they don't, if they don't reply after three, whether it's an email, a text, a phone call, it's like, all right, I tried three times.

I was as direct as possible saying that I mean it. I would really like, you know, I was direct and your non-responses is a direct. So after that third one, you know, I think he was just like, all right, this dude's serious.

Like you want to do this show up at this time and this, that, the other. And I said, okay.

Jason:

Sounds like John.

Craig:

Yeah. I said, however, there is a caveat. My wife's due date is, uh, this week.

So it, you know, my son, uh, was going to be born any day. So I said, if I don't show it is because I will get back to you, but it's most likely she had gone into labor. So I got there and I'm wanting to be punctual.

So I'm sitting in his beer garden waiting for him. Like I think it was even pre 7am, you know, I think it was something like be there by seven. I was like, you know, I've always learned to, you know, be on time and being on time and being 10, 15 minutes early.

So I'm sitting there. Yeah. I hear him talking on the phone as he's coming up.

He can't see me. I'm in the garden. He's coming up to the door, which I'm close by, but like, you know, just took a seat, was sitting, waiting for him.

And I kind of caught the end of his conversation on the phone. He's like, yeah. I mean, I got this guy is supposed to be meeting me here.

He's, I don't know if he's showing up or not. I guess he's having a baby. I mean, I really don't know.

And then I just, that was my cue to pop out and be like, well, I'm here and he's like, oh, all right. And we got going. And that's how I got to know him.

Jason:

I guess that's better than bah.

Craig:

Yeah. You know, and you know, he had me do the quintessential clearing out the mash tun, this, and it was nice. It was a good, you know, I think I hung out for like three, four hours.

Jason:

Worst job. Nobody likes to do it.

Craig:

And it's like the passing of rights, right? Like you wanted to show up on brew day, then you're doing this, this, like you're cleaning this. You're doing that.

And I asked him a ton of questions, learned a bunch of stuff, and it was both valuable to my studies as well as us fostering a relationship. And you know, I've been having beer from him ever since he's had some trials and tribulations with some vandalism and you know, he is, you know, a workhorse when it comes to his facility. So you know, a lot of, a lot of iterations, whether he's brewing here, brewing this type of beer, brewing this beer underneath this name, or he's got this pizzeria in his place or now he's got Hawaiian barbecue.

So talk about someone that's just always got 20 balls in the air. Like most of us. Um, he's definitely, he's, he's definitely working things.

So whenever it comes out, I usually buy a case and I usually drink half that case. It's one of those good shift beers, in my opinion, if I want to have a beer, it's not as many calories, it's not as much alcohol. And he, you know, he told me that, uh, you know, people kind of refer to it as well.

You know, traditionally they call it the Polish champagne, but he says it's a, the kielbasa beer or that hot dog beer, which you had brought up. So I'll let you speak to that in a moment, but it's like when we drink this and when we dive into a little bit more, so I'll kind of crack and pour it and talk about the expectations of it. But you can go ahead and tell me what you know about good old Grodziskie.

Jason:

Well, Grodziskie, so that's one of the first beer I ever cut my teeth on with Buffalo Brewing Company. We know that they came around kind of late in the game, like 20, like 2021, right?

Craig:

Uh, yeah, maybe. No, I mean, he opened up well before me, so I was 2021, the end of, I would say he's probably like a 2019, he was probably right before the pandemic. So I would say probably 2018, 2019.

Jason:

So they had, uh, uh, so they had that location and then didn't they have a second location someplace for a hot minute? Um, can't remember. This is predating the podcast and, but I remember having the, uh, Grodziskie, say it again.

Craig:

The Grodziskie. The Grodz.

Jason:

Grodziskie. I got it. It's got to roll off the tongue, but I remember having this and I also remember having the Logan Berry.

Okay. Uh, so if you've ever, you know, like Logan Berry, Western New York staple, if you're going to have a Logan Berry, there's a few places where you can in, in Buffalo, in my opinion, the better of all of them is Buffalo Brewing Company. So I remember this one here.

I thought it was interesting that it was, uh, smoky, didn't know anything about it. Uh, lightly crisp. Then I find out 3.5 ABV. So it's right in that table beer conversation. So I've always enjoyed it and I think it's a nice, uh, it's because it's a wheat, it's a nice enjoyment beer to have. I don't like them so much crisp and cold as I like them, you know, when they come up a few degrees.

So that's what, that's basically all I got. I mean, I know they're smoky, they're light. He talks about kielbasa in a glass, which I always thought was a good chuckle because never quite got that.

Craig:

And I just think of like hot dog water and Well, if I should mention that, cause like I've had some people when they grab this beer off the shelf, when I have it, I let them know, I'm like, you know, this is a, like a smoked beer, right? And they're like, no, I just like the can and name. And so I told him, I said, it's definitely interesting to try.

And I had this one guy that tries a ton of beer and he had it and he's just, he's making a whole spectacle out of it. And he's like, why would you ever even carry this beer? It tastes like a hot dog or smoked hot dog.

And I'm like, yeah, I mean, it's a one beer that, you know, obviously you don't like, but I'm sure you're glad you tried it. He's like, no, I'm never glad I would try that. And he's just busting chops.

He had a good time. He's just like, just couldn't fathom why anyone would like this. And I think, you know, when we had that Rauch beer, it was a little bit more balanced cause it's a Mertzen, it's malty.

It's got some backbone to it where this is a very light ABV, you know, almost half the ABV of that last one are, you know, most, most Mertzens around the six mark. So at three and a half, like this is very light. It's light in color.

You look at this, it looks like a lager or a pilsner. It's also, it's a wheat beer and like wheat beers usually are good for additional flavors. Like that's why you see a lot of fruited wheats because they're tart because there's a little bit more acid and the pH is, you know, a little lower when it comes to wheat malt.

So now you got smoked wheat malt and that kind of just really drives home the smokiness. And to me, it's a little, I don't want to say a little less balanced because that makes you think, oh, it's not as good of a beer. It just, it's not as balanced where now this smoke kind of sticks out a little bit more.

And since it's such a light beer, you know, the smoke kind of just lends itself to things that you would naturally think of when you're having something smoky and since it's lighter in flavor, it does kind of go towards like, it's not a smoked prime brisket. It's not smoked ribs. It is a little bit more of like a lighter sausage, like the kielbasa or like a hot dog or something like that.

That would come to mind. Not that it tastes like that. It's just our mind goes places.

You're looking for something to reference this to.

Jason:

Something to plug it into.

Craig:

And a lot of people like this, what pops up to them is like, oh, okay, this tastes like, this tastes like smoked. What do I eat that's smoked? And then you go through all those and the brain kind of lands on like hot dog or like kielbasa because it's that light wheat flavor versus something a little darker, a little roastier, a little maltier.

So, you know, very light, very crisp. When you look at this, you know, I can, it's a little hazy, but I could see my fingers through it. Hold it up to the light.

I mean, it gets lighter in color. You know, right now it's sitting at a very light gold, if not yellow. When you hide it out to the light, it's a little even more paler than that.

Some slight straw. It's a little cheers, a little sniff and a little swirl and sip. So when you smell the smoke, it's got that similar, not too smoky aroma, like the last route that we just had, you know, and again, it smells more like, hey, this was wood that was burned recently, so it's got this smoky characteristic, but it does smell a little lighter.

How does smoke smell lighter? Like, I don't know. It smells, you know, when you see the, when you see white smoke versus like that dark billowy, like gray and towards darker smoke, like this smells a little bit more like the white simple smoke versus that heavy, just like robust kind of.

Jason:

Kind of like they just picked a new pope. Yeah. There you go.

There you go.

Craig:

And this one kind of like the other, the smoke kind of adds an astringency. So this one tastes slightly more bitter to me, and that might just be because of the lighter malts, the smoky astringency, and like I said, soapy is not the right word. It's just more of an astringent kind of lasting.

It kind of wraps onto the tartness of the wheat and I feel like it lingers a little longer. And again, this is another one that pairs very well with food because of the smoked aspect, but since it's lighter in flavor and stuff, I feel like this is less of your big roasts. You know, I would go more towards just a hamburger or some hot dogs or some kielbasa or sausages because it has that like smoke connotation to it when it comes to that type of food, but it's not as intense as something like a brisket or your bigger and more popular cuts to smoke.

It's more of a, it's almost like just adding some bacon to a burger or adding bacon to the equation. It just, it doesn't really, doesn't really go toe to toe with like a prime rib or anything like that, but it would be like, oh, I'm sprinkling, like this would be good with potatoes, you know, very soft malt, very soft. But to me, potatoes love bacon, right?

Crumbled bacon on my fries, my loaded potato, that'd be great. Like a little smoky flavor to it. You know, this, this would be something that's clean, crisp, cleanses the palate.

So you know, to me it lends itself well to a lot of different food that you would like a little hint of smoke. And the easiest way to think of it is like, what would I like to sprinkle some bacon onto?

Jason:

Or you put it in the salad and it just becomes a game of find the bacon. Yep. You know, one of the things in my research I found was this, it said that this had 20 IBUs.

So I was curious to taste it again to pick up the bitterness. And you do get a bit, and you do get on the front end of this, some of the bitterness. So I was looking to see what kind of hops they use in this.

And it says Lebelski hops, which I know is exclusively a Polish hop. And I think it's...

Craig:

John's good with it as well. You know, he's making a German beer, sorry, a Polish beer. So he's sticking with his, you know, it's probably a Polish malt, smoked Polish malt with a Polish hop and whatever you can get your hands on to make it as traditional as possible.

Jason:

And then the 1976, he has on the print on the can here lists, in 1976, Cardinal, let's see, Cardinal Karol Wojtyla, better known as the Pope St. Paul, or St. John Paul II, made his second trip to the city of Buffalo only two years before being elected the first Polish Pope. So there's the 1976.

Craig:

So there's your tie-in to Poland, your tie-in to Buffalo. All of these little nice tidbits of knowledge that kind of wraps everything up in a bow. Pope John Paul II was one of the cooler ones.

These, you know, this lighter beer, and I got it towards the end of it, right? I could tell my palate's getting a little bit more acclimated. We just, you know, we're splitting all these beers, guys, trust us.

But we're still, you know, 16-ounce can. So we're, you know, we enjoyed eight ounces each approximately of the Rauk beer, now eight ounces of the Grodziskie.

Jason:

And cleansing the palate in between episodes, you know, so it helps, and it especially helps in this series.

Craig:

But it's, you know, we're now, both of us are about a pint into smoked beers, and I could kind of sense my palate's like not so much, hey, what's going on with this beer? Your beer's smoky. It's more, yep, this is a smoked beer.

Now I'm kind of picking up on the nuances, the differences between the smoke. Now we're able to kind of, you know, distinguish the base style with that versus, all right, if I tried just like a heavily smoked beer, you might just not be able to get past the fact that it's smoked. But now we're doing a horizontal of smoked beers.

We're able to pick out the differences, differences of smoke, differences of malt profile. This was very nice, light, and crisp. So it is one of those session beers that, you know, aren't going to be too heavy, but again, just tons of flavor.

So to me, like, this is a good cookout beer. You're just sitting there, grilling, eating, and enjoying the backyard.

Jason:

Grilled foods, definitely.

Craig:

Grilled foods, like I said. This is like add-in bacon. It's one of those, you know, hot dogs aren't the healthiest thing for you, but it's almost like they don't exist, right?

I feel like I'll be grilling hot dogs, and sometimes I eat just two of them before they even hit the table. Next thing you know, you have another two, and you're like, all right, did I just eat four hot dogs in the last 20 minutes? They kind of just go down super easy.

But, you know, you add this to it, or add some bacon to your hot dog, you know, a bacon cheddar dog. You know, this would just be great with cheeses, you know, just a simple cheddar or just your simple backyard cheeses. This has that crisp, just carbonation to cut through it, that slight smokiness.

Now we've got smoked cheddar. Now it's a smoked Gouda. You name it, this is adding the smoke to it.

And since it's not too heavy of a flavor in base beer, it really just lends itself and kind of just imparts its smoke flavor onto what you're enjoying with it. Same with the Mertzin, but the Mertzin has a little bit more going on, so it kind of keeps its flavor to itself, so to speak, where, hey, my malt flavor's coming along with it where I feel like this smokiness can really lend itself and almost, since the base beer is so light, it'll really kind of just blend what you're eating with it and lend the smoke of that to that dish as well.

Jason:

I think this one complements that hot profile really nice here. Another food that I thought about, because I'm not shy from buying kielbasa, but I don't grill so much, but what I've been known to do is I'll take kielbasa and I'll butterfly it, and then I'll pan sear that with like a garlic oil. I'll do that sometimes, so yeah, this might be really good with that too.

Craig:

That's good. You know, you think of kielbasa, you think of hot dogs, you think of any sausage, right? There's that little snappy casing.

They're, you know, they're juicy and delicious because there's some fat added to it usually. It's usually what's left of the butcher shop and the grind, and you're making a very tasty food because it's got a high fat content. Well, that high fat content kind of coats your mouth, kind of makes it for, you know, a rich dish, and then this is enough intensity, the carbonation as well, the astringency of that smoke, kind of really just tame all that down, and it makes it so, all right, well, I had my kielbasa and I had my beer, and I don't feel like I, you know, need to take a break from the next beer because it was able to cut and contrast so well. You know, a little bit of history that I looked up on this, you know, there was the Prussian occupation and, you know, the style was huge, got up to like 85,000 barrels per year was being put out, but really it was, you know, it's a Grajiskija because it comes from an area called Grajisk, and then you just take the IE off the end of this, and that's the town or the city of Grajisk, and it was, you know, it's just one of those kind of like how Bamberg, Germany had their Rauchl beer that they were making and then become known for it, and then it's basically like, hey, it's not really a Rauchl beer if it's not from Bamberg, and this is a Grajiskija because it's from Grajisk, and it just becomes kind of indicative, and then when you kind of have your own thing, you really lean into it, they're one of the only ones that are brewing it, it almost makes it a novelty, so you can see the mass appeal of people just wanting to try it, and then they try it, they drink it, some people are into it, some people don't drink it, and then with anything that does have like, you know, this is like to me the old school hype, old school isn't like 14, 15 hundreds, but hey, here's a beer that is kind of only made in one place, and it's a very light beer, but it's got smoke profile, and it's very crisp and clean, but it's got tons of flavor, so ah man, gotta go try this out, try this out, so you know, it gets big, it's traveled, it gets, you know, flattered by interpretations from other breweries, and next thing you know, it's kind of, it's no longer what's new, it's just something that's out there, and then if it doesn't have the lasting power, that's when it starts to fizzle away, it's not one that people are searching for anymore, it's not something that people just have to have, it's kind of like, okay, we've had your smoked beer, it's good, but we're going back to our traditional lager, we're going back to this, we're going back to that, so one of those beers that then started to fizzle out, and you know, some breweries in Poland are, you know, revitalize it, just like, you know, we were talking about the Rauk beer day, or the smoked beer day, this is one of those things where people want to hold on to their traditions, want to hold on to stuff, it's historic style, you know, we're talking, you know, 600, 700 years, almost, of being brewed, and you got guys like, you know, Buffalo Brewing Company that have their version of it, you've got places like Dovetail, and you'll see a few in far between that are coming out with something like this, because a lot of people just don't know about it, and it's also a beer that's not going to fly off the shelves unless you market it well enough, and I think this is a beer at the right price point, ABV, it's something that people are worth trying, and they'll grab a four pack of it, might be something they thoroughly enjoy, might be something that, you know, they make a stink about it, at Magic Bear, talking about, how could you serve me a hot dog beer, and why would, and I said, I told you, and you bought it, and you drank it, and you can't believe that I like it, and I can't believe you think it's that bad, and it's one of those to each his own, and everybody's palate's different, so sometimes if there is a very powerful flavor, if you're, you know, susceptible to that flavor, then it's super powerful to you, you know, kind of like, you know, if you're not into cilantro, right, if you're one of those people that tastes soap, and get headaches, and don't enjoy it, if there's just a little bit, you notice it, so if there's a lot of bit, now you're just like, jeez, get this away from me, ruin my food, yeah, so this is definitely a style, if you see it available, I would grab a can, you know, that's one thing I like about Magic Bear, is, you know, we allow you to mix and match, so you can grab one can of this, and if you really like it, go back and grab four, go down the road, when he's got it available, does release it, usually around-ish Easter time, you know, the Polish and the Dingus Day, and all the stuff that goes on around, shot of krypnik, yes, right, all of the things that make South Buffalo as party town as possible, but it's one of those, alright, it's available, buy a couple four packs, be one of those weekends where you end up drinking two, three, four of them, it's a light, easy drinking, low ABV, super good flavor, great for the backyard, great to pair with dinner, and for me, a great shift beer, not a lot of alcohol, lots of flavor, you definitely know you had a beer when you're done with it, quenches your thirst from it's crisp drinkability to totally, you know, brings a flavor profile, because it's that nuanced, so this is one of the ones that I was looking at for notably niche, because it's very notable style, and that's when I realized, oh, I still have a Rauk beer, and then I was like, do I have anything else, do I still have that smoked porter, I was like, I do, and you know, that's kind of where we're going next, we're going into some more smoked, darker beers, so this was kind of the palate cleanser, we started with a nice amber, red, copper, all the way up into brown, almost, in the color scale there, and definitely maltier, and then this is like cleansing the palate, with it being a light, pale, super crisp Gladziskie, and then we're going to turn gears back to the darker, you know, darker flavors, and that's where, like I said, I think it sticks out so much here, because it is such a light beer with smoked flavor, if you ever get a smoked Helles, that's another very popular style, but Helles is supposed to be such a showcase for like Pilsner Mountains, it's super light, super simple, so once you add some smoke, even if it's a tiny bit, it's, whoa, this is smoky, it's noticeable, yeah, but it's one of those, man, this has a lot going on, I'm not used to all this flavor, and I like it, you know, it's kind of, you know, you do enjoy ribs, right, just having some ribs, getting them off the smoker is a nice treat, having them smoked all the time, maybe not, right, it's to each his own, and with this beer, I say, you know, I'm all for it.

Jason:

Same, same, and, you know, it's going to take us halfway through this series already, I, you know, you could joke and say it's been a short ride, but we record these episodes on one day, so it's literally been an hour, so we've gone through this entire half series, so we've got two down, we've got two to go, and when we come back with the next episode, we're going to change up our smoking technique here, just a little bit, we're going to go from Beechwood to a different kind of smoked malt, but you're going to have to listen to that on the next episode of Barely Getting Started, I am Jason, and he is Craig, and to you we say, cheers.