During summertime you think about breaking open a nice ice-cold beer, but it's not just for beer anymore. Summertime I mean, because ciders have really made a surge in the last several years. And this week one of the premier cideries in Buffalo, that being OSB Ciderworks, we talk with them this week and talk about their beginnings out in the Finger Lakes, their transformation to Buffalo, and basically what they have going on here in the near future.

So join me because it's episode 15 of the Buffalo Brews Podcast, which starts right now. Hello, hello, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Buffalo Brews Podcast.

I am your host, Jason Ettinger, and thanks for joining me this week, just like you do each and every week on your favorite podcasting platform. Hey, raise your hand if you're listening on Spotify. Okay, now raise your hand if you're on Apple Podcasts.

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That means that you did some deep diving if you did find one. If you find one, I'll find a way to get on there too. So it's all about the magic.

Just recently, Travis Brown, who was one of the gentlemen who got me actually kind of rocket strapped into the podcasting world, gave some feedback that they were giving us a follow, and it seems like they're liking what we're doing here. And it's nice to know that the people that kind of helped you put you in that position are now avid followers as well, because they like to see that progress in how you're doing. So make sure that you follow us each week.

You just hit that subscribe or that follow button. Recommend us out. Family, friends, coworkers, you name it.

I know I work in a job where I can take in podcasts and still comfortably do my work, because I don't have to deal with the phones that often. So I'm able to enjoy a lot of podcasts. Several of them have to do with beer around Buffalo, homebrewing.

Personally, I like to listen to a lot of podcasts that relate to spy controversies or professional wrestling, some that have to do with football now and again. It doesn't matter, but it keeps me entertained, and it makes the day go by so much more smooth as my microphone decides to take a sudden tip over. But we're going to keep going on that.

We're not even going to edit that out, because that's how we roll here. Plus, we're going to keep this opening rather short, because we have about a 30-minute interview on the back, and that interview is going to be with Elise Smith, who is with OSB Ciderworks out of Buffalo. They have a location located in the Finger Lakes in Lakeville, New York, and they opened up a tap room in 2000 and basically 2021, if it comes down to brass tacks, because COVID decided to give them the old kick in the pants as well, and you'll hear about that in the interview.

So last week, I was talking about with the 4th of July weekend that I had an opportunity to go back near the motherland and headed down to Mayville, and I stopped in at Big Inlet Brewing to take in a flight down there before I went to my family's for the 4th of July holiday. And while I was there, I got an opportunity to talk to some of the folks behind the bar and take, like I said, take in a flight. One of the ones that they really feature heartily there is one that's called a Mainstream Cream, which is their own version of cream ale.

It's a 6.0 ABV, one of the smoother cream ales that I've had that have been from a Western New York brewery, to be honest with you. It's a real blue collar type of ale. Now, the one thing about Big Inlet that I use the word ale a lot, they only deal in ales.

So if you're one of those people that's looking for all this fancy stuff, Big Inlet's not going to be for you. You want to go for ale and you want to drink good ale beer, Big Inlet is for you. It was a very pale cream ale, but very light and had a nice hop finish on the back.

When I asked the question about that, they said that was called a Wilmette Hot that was used in that one. So that was very good indeed. The second one they had was their 1801 Farmhouse Ale.

So I like a good Vienna ale myself, comparable to say like Rusty Chain from Flying Bison. So this one here was actually a blend of a pale ale of Vienna and a wheat malt. And then they put in oatmeal of their own that makes a very strong base for the beer.

Add in some orange peel, which is what you get right off the top on the tasting note. And then they also add in Belgian candy sugar, which tends to drive up the ABV on this one. This one comes in at a 8.0, which is a nice strong farmhouse ale.

And then that'll add the additional sweetness that balances out the herbs and the fruit characters in that. And then this one also has the Wilmette hops as well, while the Belgian yeasts, they'll impart a spice and fruit notes. Now, I'm using a lot of jargon here.

So you flip through your beer thesaurus to figure out what all this means. And sometimes I have to research it myself. I'm learning as I go along, and I'm glad that you're here to go along and learn with me.

The third one that I got in there was a special run that they did. So you'll remember when I talked about Silver Lake Brewing down in Perry, and they had a rye IPA, which was one of the first times I'd ever tried one, and I quite enjoyed it. So it's a play on an IPA, basically.

It's a blend of various malts, and then it has a large portion of malted rye, is what I found out is in these rye IPAs. And then this one had a bunch of citrus hops in it. So it makes for a good drinking IPA.

They ended up doing this as a special run, and it was brand new while I was there. So not a whole lot of folks that had it so far. But they said, what was the deal? Because I asked the question about what was with the name, and they said that a few of their kegs had earned some road scars when they had fallen out of the back of the truck being delivered and rolling down Route 394, which is the one that goes around the north and west part of Chautauqua Lake.

So they wanted to honor the toughness of the kegs and the followers. So that's where it earned its name. When I asked them what the original name was, they said it really didn't have a name yet.

So this is how it earned its name, by a few kegs falling out of the back of the truck. So I thought that was creative. And it was good.

It was a good rye IPA. I enjoyed that. So I'm going to be looking into that more as I go to more breweries and seeing what they play with as far as these rye IPAs are concerned.

The last one was definitely my favorite, and I was singing its praises all over the place. And it was a blonde ale that they had. So you talk about blonde ales.

They're always a good base beer that can showcase fruits. In this particular case, they have what's called blonde and blue. And it's a blonde ale that's flavored with blueberry.

You know, light, but not too light. And definitely not on the heavy side where it's overpowering. But it has amazing flavor.

And then you put that into an easy drinking blonde ale. And then you get this blonde and blue. And I could drink this all day.

Once again, there comes my term, that summer sipper. But it's got a great aroma and that taste of blueberry. I don't know why I migrate toward blueberry beers a lot, especially nowadays.

There's actually one that I'll talk about for a few moments next week as well that I'm trying as part of a tasting that I'm doing over this weekend. So it was definitely, truly, it was like tasting summer in a glass, essentially. And when I got done at Big Inlet Brewing, I head up into Mayville, up where Lakeside Park is.

And they were setting up the fireworks displays for, of course, the 4th of July. They're going to fire those off later at night. And I went up to Barney's Ice Cream that they have there.

You know, very nondescript, almost like that outdoor. Back in the days, like when Dairy Queen used to have those strictly outdoor locations. You still see them, you know, here and there.

But, you know, that old-fashioned kind of, you know, almost woodshed look to them. But this, but they have their own ice cream there. And I was able to take the opportunity to stop in and partake in an ice cream flight when I saw that on their menu.

Flights before pints, right? Hashtag. So I had their cappuccino crunch, their cookie dough, their cookies and cream. And then I capped that off with a specialty one that they had that was a coconut chocolate almond.

Me, can't eat almonds too much, but you put a little bit in ice cream and you know what? My body's not going to So let's enjoy that. But let me tell you, sitting on the, basically sitting against the hood of my car in the blazing heat and constantly having to clean it off of my legs because it was dripping down on my legs was well worth it because all four of these flavors, homemade, quite amazing. And when I started to look them up on Instagram, I realized that that logo looks eerily familiar.

So I did a little cross-referencing with the Barney's that is now located on Elmwood Avenue in Buffalo and find out that they are the exact same owner. So there's the Barney's on Elmwood in the city of Buffalo, and then there's Barney's Chautauqua located in Mayville, New York. They are in fact the same people.

They just make little different ice creams depending on the locations. The Buffalo location has more vegan selections, but you know what? Now it's going to make me want to go to the Elmwood location and we might have to have a little conversation because I would like to see how that all came about where they ended up in the city of Buffalo. Great location up there.

But if you're ever down in Mayville, big inlet brewing, and then of course, you know, hey, cap it off with a little ice cream, head up into Mayville and go over to Barney's right across from Lakeside Park there in Mayville. So that's it. That's the opening.

There it is. Okay, folks, an interview I did with Elise Smith at OSB Ciderworks. Enjoy.

Okay, let's do it. Original stump lower OSB. Yes, here we are at 517 Main Street in Buffalo now.

Uh-huh. Yeah. And then your other location is in Lakeview.

Lakeville. Yeah, yeah, right at the north end of Canisius Lake, you know, like those Finger Lakes, the Pinky Lake. It's the gateway from the west is what I say.

Pinky Lake. Yeah, it's the first finger, you know, it's the gateway. Yeah, we're the closest Finger Lake to Buffalo and Rochester.

So we should be everybody's favorite lake. And I am talking with Elise Smith. That's correct.

I am Elise Smith. So Elise and I, when we last met was that when the Black Button was still open. And you were there doing a tasting and you had just the rights to the space.

Yes, very exciting time. It's attention time. I know.

Sorry, Glenister wants to say hi. Can you say hi, Bubba? Can you say hi to the people? Can you bark? Go later. Yeah.

You were sleeping. Now you want to bother everybody. He was surfing.

Well, he wasn't surfing. Wow. He was sleeping on top of the surf bar.

Yeah, yeah. So let's hope he doesn't bark the whole time. We'll see what happens.

Oh, that's fine. Done interviews where, you know, we were doing it while they were open, while they were busy and lots of breaks in between having, you know, you'd have to run back and change a tap and hit pause, or somebody was walking in without a mask on. He had to say hey.

Yeah. Well, now we're in no mask zone as long as you're vaccinated type of situation. So I guess the world is changing again.

So let's see how it goes. Back to this normalcy. It'd be nice for it to go back to normal.

So that'd be really good. Exactly. So original Stump Blower.

Now my understanding of the story, and you'll have to correct me on a few of the details, is the concept came from you and your brother taking your homemade cider and hiding it in the stumps in the woods. So my dad and his uncle, so our great uncle, they back in the day used to make it and they would just throw a bunch of stuff in a barrel and let it sit in the basement until it turned into hooch, so to speak. You know, they knew it was done when it tasted like alcohol.

I don't know. And then they would bottle it up and hide it around and then they would joke that it was so strong that it blew up stumps. And then it kind of turned into like slang for backyard swilling, like let's go blow up some stumps.

And we just decided to take that name and turn it into the name for the company. And that's where we came up with Original Stump Blower. And then, of course, because no one's going to call us Original Stump Blower, I was like, you know, OSB for short.

And we just kind of designed two logos. And here we are five years later and people still ask us what OSB stands for. So, I mean, you know, I think it's at least a good story, whether it's fully truth or not.

If you ask my mom the story of it, oh, man, she'll never let the truth get in the way of good story. She'll exaggerate as long as you let her. So, you know, it's definitely got some family history to it and it makes it interesting and fun on a regular basis.

We do make the original. We've fine-tuned the recipe. So, we do have it.

It's 11% alcohol. We don't have a basement. We have a barrel house and we don't just throw a bunch of junk in a barrel.

We measure stuff accurately or at least I think they do. You do it the legal way. Yes, of course, we have to.

So, the original is the... Based on their recipe. Yeah, it's based on their recipe. And it's 11% alcohol and it tastes very bourbon-y.

We get black button bourbon barrels actually to make it in. So, you know, we try to keep it local whenever possible. Love it.

I absolutely love it. So, the day that I met you, so we were talking about... I had tried the hip hop hibiscus, the hold the crust apple pie, which was bomb diggity. And then you said because it was closer to winter at the time because I believe it was like November or something.

Yeah. When we talked, this is November before the great shutdown. And then we had the gangster's paradise.

And I remember the hibiscus was probably the most unique cider I'd ever had at that point. And really my own experience at that point was just whatever you buy in the store. Right.

Which wasn't a whole lot at the time. It's definitely grown since then, which was like the very end of 2018, right? Yeah. Or 2019.

I was like, what year is that? I don't even know. I just posted the other day. It's like March 438th.

And we're finally, you know, coming out of this. That's right. Yeah.

I don't know what day it is. I guess we can just start over now. It's almost going to be April Fool's Day 2020 again.

There we go. Let's just do it. Groundhog's Day, right? Where's Bill Murray? I want out.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So we definitely have some fun, like we made a beef on wax cider.

Why is not the question you should ask. It's just why not is really they like to do fun stuff. Nobody wants to be bored and make the same thing all the time.

So and Motley Blue is, of course, back now for the summer, which is that blue spirulina and pineapple one that, you know, gets people saying, what are they drinking? So that's the perfect time now because that's what I got in front of me. Yeah, it's very pineappley. So yeah, we get the pineapple right up.

And it's naturally blue because the spirulina is blue. And it's it's a health food item. So I mean, technically, it's a little healthy for you.

Yeah, that's like, yeah, yeah, for sure. So people are loving that one. And then strawberry is back as well.

That'll go on the wall as soon as I kick something else. I think there's a couple that are on the cusp of like, the danger zone, they're gonna as soon as I print out new menus, they'll kick. That's just like how it goes.

For sure. So we'll see what happens. What did you say when I walked in? It was like on its way out the gangster's paradise, but it's like that never ending keg, even though like weighs nothing, and I can pick it up with my pinky.

Either my pinkies gotten very strong, or it's just the keg that will never die. I'm gonna go with the pinky really strong. Maybe maybe my pinky is just been doing them pinky push ups.

So yeah, so you have the family history, then you so move forward. Now you How do you establish your location in Lakeville? So we're just like right on the north end of the lake. And honestly, it's such like a small town community.

It's so great. Some of the regulars have become such good friends of my brother and myself and my mom. Like, we just grew up in a more the merrier type of family.

And that environment down there is very much similar. Like Lakeville is like, Oh, come on, come on, the more the merrier, like, there's room for one more always. I mean, we might all be uncomfortable, but come on in.

You know, and that's just kind of how that's gone down there. And we've gotten busier as it goes. And the more that the name and the product get out into bars, the more people know about us and kind of swing in when they realize like, Oh, we're just around the corner.

Let's just go a little bit extra and try it all out. And then, you know, they have like the standard cherry or pear apple pie somewhere. And then they come in and they're like, Whoa, there's 16 different ciders.

We're probably at about 50 that we've made so far. So we like to keep it, keep it rotated. Keep it rotated so that it's fun for everybody.

You never know, like, unfortunately, you never know what's going to be on draft. But we try to keep it interesting for ourselves and for the consumer. We want you to come in and be able to have something different than what you're having, you know, down the street.

We don't want it to just be like, Oh, I thought there'd be more. And nobody wants to be bored. So the guys like to come up with new, fun, creative things.

And we just roll with it. I always wondered how, you know, you would come up with the think tank and the ideas that came with, you know, a new flavor. It's pretty organic, honestly, like it could be like Kaylee is one of our like really cool sales reps.

She is also a cider slinger behind the bar, you know, and sometimes we'll just be having a conversation about like a salad that somebody ate, or, you know, literally a juice or just like, it can come from anywhere, food, drink, alcohol, other alcohol, different liquor flavors, like different inspiration, like, Oh, I was watching a story about, you know, Japan. And you know, this is really cool there. I wonder if we could turn that into this, you know, so it's really just like, everyday inspiration, sparks of flavor.

And then it's like a quick conversation. It's like, Oh, we'll try a small batch, see what, see what we think. Okay, that's kind of where it goes.

I was like, I want to make a blue cider. And I was like, we could put blue spirulina in it. And then they're like, well, what if we did like pineapple watermelon? And last year, it was pineapple watermelon, but nobody could taste the watermelon.

It just watered it down. So we took the watermelon out this year. That happens.

Yeah, like no one could taste it. So this batch, you know, I've had some conversations with, you know, they're something that they're not overly happy with. You tweak it, you know, because everybody's got a different palate.

A lot of people think that they just put the glass to their lips, they drink and you're supposed to pick up everything you're supposed to pick up. But not everybody's the same. Some people are gonna like it.

Some people won't like, you know, sweet bitter. Yeah, mint to drop beats is one of our flavors that's like that. It's literally beat and mint.

It's fuchsia. It's beautiful. And some people are like, Oh my gosh, it's so minty.

Or Oh my gosh, it's so beady. And I'm like, I mean, it's a little bit of both, but it just depends on who's tasting it. Same with when I think like, you know, we had fuzzy basil, which is a peach basil.

And some people are like, Oh my gosh, it's way too basil. And I was like, I hardly get any basil, give me more. But it's all based on what you like and your taste buds.

And, and really, that's why like when people ask, like, what order am I supposed to drink these in? Or like, what are they like, all of our descriptions are just nerdy. Like I just write nerd stuff. I'm just like, you know, but it doesn't really tell you anything about the cider.

I'm not going to tell you about the cider. You tell me about the cider. How is it to you? Because I'm not going to tell you what it tastes like.

You tell me what it tastes like. You've got 10 people along this bar, you're going to get 10 different opinions. Exactly.

Like, we're not trying to tell you what it tastes like. We're just trying to give you a little goofy story about maybe how we got that silly name. If you understand.

And instead, now you've got, you know, whatever 16 different varieties that are on the menu. So now you might have 10 people down the row who have 10 different exactly tastes because it's what they like. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, people ask what like our favorites are.

The honey chamomile is always my favorite. It took a long time to get them to make that one. But it was also like one of the first ones that we made.

And so it was just like an interesting it was before we realized like, we truly can do whatever we want, right? Because the worst case scenario, nobody likes it. And we just don't make it again. Not a big deal.

And that one was good. I think that was the second one that I had. Yeah.

It's the honey. Oh, no, I'm sorry. No, that's the one I have here.

This one was the sapatilla, which I have really gotten into, whether it's craft beers or ciders that are made with maple syrup. Yeah. And I haven't found one that wasn't a winner yet.

Yeah, we got local maple syrup. And the first time we made it, we made it with actual sap and like boiled it down ourselves. And I think that I realize that sometimes it's cool to do that.

But sometimes we need to hone it in a little bit and make it a little bit easier because Eric was standing by like a kettle for like, I don't know, 17 hours because you can't just leave it going. And that that's a lot or you have to turn it off and come back and then you have to read it all up. So sometimes we've learned that it's better to adjust and shift on things.

For Eric standing over a cauldron with a boat oar. Yeah, for sure. A hundred percent.

It's like a hole in the pot that we have is from the military. It was our dad's and I think he got it for like twenty dollars like at some auction or something. And we had the neighbor across the street, Harry.

He's really cool. He does all of our welding. So he fitted it with like rollers and like all sorts of fixtures so they could utilize it right in the process of fermenting.

So we get lucky where that small community and the people become our friends are like really a part of the business and they love it. They're, you know, in the mug club and but they're the first ones to offer to help and they don't want anything for it 90 percent of the time. And you're like, come on, man.

So you just pay them in cider. Cider installments. Exactly, exactly.

We'll give you a couple of mug or growler club memberships. Just get your fills as you need them. Gotcha.

All for that. All for getting you in the game, you know? Yeah. And I mean, it's great to grow with the community and have them have something to be proud of.

You know, our team is actually substantially larger than just the members on payroll. You know, it's everybody who's in our mug club that keeps coming back and like asking, like, oh, you know, is your mom home from Florida? Like they are just part of our daily lives. They're like, oh, Kaylee just went on that dope trip.

Like when's she coming back? I was like, gosh, you need an extra day off. I told her she's going to be tired. But, you know, so it's cool.

They've all become like an actual part of the company, whether they know it or not. They're just as important as myself or my brother or the chemist, you know, sales reps. The consumers are pivotal.

So seeing with Lakeville for the moment you're talking about, you've made up and around 50 different cider varieties. What would you feel would be the overall people's choice? Oh, well, it depends. So Cherry Cherry is like super popular.

Gangster's Paradise and Hold the Crust in the Winter. Grape White Shark and Grape Lakes. We like to layer them.

Then you have a lake shark. You know, we're not afraid to mix them. Like we make a rhubarb separate so people can make a strawberry rhubarb if they want.

Or I like cherry rhubarb. But like our fruited ones are really popular and they always have been. I mean, my favorite is not everybody's favorite, but I make them make it.

And you talked about making a lake shark with the Grape Lakes and the Grape White Shark. What was the one you told me about? It was the Scotch Bonnet Bomber right now in the Motley Blue. It's like a spicy pineapple and people are really into it.

But tons of people actually drink the Scotch Bonnet Bomber and I was really skeptical of them making it. I was like, why are you making a spicy? I'm not going to be able to do anything with this. People love it, but I'm not going to sell it to bars because I don't want to ruin their draft lines because the peppers will like seriously.

Oh wow. It smells spicier than it tastes. So don't be too scared.

Okay. Yeah. All right.

This is the Scotch Bonnet Bomber 6.98 BB. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Smells much spicier than it really is. Yeah. They roast them off and then kind of like do some magician wizardry in the back where like I think a lot of people who are adding peppers into product are juicing the peppers.

And I think that they have a, I know that they have a totally different process. I'm not going to spill their beans. I don't know if they want me to let people know how they're doing it.

So there's all different techniques. So they don't tell me too much stuff. They don't like me to know the secrets.

That's all right. I'm starting to talk with more people and they, and I find more often than not, people aren't talking about the techniques. Yeah.

Cause like, it's the same. So I used to work at a bakery in San Francisco. And um, if you called and asked for a recipe, the chef would give you the recipe.

Amanda should give you the recipe. And I was like, you just gave them your chocolate chip cookie recipe. She goes, yeah.

Cause they don't know my technique. And you know what? I can give that recipe to 20 different people and tell them to bring me in a cookie. And I guarantee every single one will be different than the one that I produce because you, you can give somebody a recipe, but if they don't understand the technique, you know, you've got to cream the butter and the sugar for a certain amount of time, you know, they do turn out differently.

And she was not lying. That's a nice combination of generosity and confidence. Yeah.

She's like, I'll give you my recipe. The odds are not in your favor. You know, I'm not going to teach you how to make the cookie, but I'll give you the, you know, it's always funny because I swear my grandma used to give me, um, uh, recipes and stuff, give them out.

And I think she'd tweak or she knows something in her brain. Like my, uh, you know, was given a recipe and, uh, the cookie turned out super weird. And I like, was like, well, next time you make the cookie, I'm going to watch you make it.

And they totally doubled the sour cream. I'm like, that's double what you put in the recipe. They're like, yeah, I know.

I just double it. And I was like, wait, that's not in the recipe. They're like, yeah, it's just in my brain.

And I was like, okay, touché. Like you can't give me what's in your brain. You just give me the recipe card that somebody else gave to you and you've improved on it over time.

And you don't even realize that you're doing things differently than what it says on the sheet. So it's kind of cool how things evolve like that. Yeah.

She gets the card with the suggested speed limit. She's like, yeah, I'm going to do 20 over on this curve. Yeah, there you go.

Blow it out of the water. Exactly. So it's just like how life, how you interpret it and everything.

So I can give you a recipe, but if you don't know the technique, it's going to turn out different. Might turn out better. Hey, what do I know? Right.

And then it goes back to the 10 people at the bar. Who knows? Maybe it made one that worked for you that didn't necessarily work for you in the bar. I mean, I've made the same recipe twice and messed it up the second time and had no clue how.

So yeah, I've been there. Yeah. You're like, man, these shortbreads turned out great last time.

Now they're just like a soppy mess. Yeah. And definitely don't put pineapple in your meatloaf, man.

Hawaiian meatloaf doesn't work. Put it on top if you want, but don't put it inside. That's a story for another day.

It will be a liquid loaf, buddy. Liquid loaf. You're going to dinner elsewhere.

Don't do it. Going out to eat. Everybody gets your jackets.

Round them up. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, interesting.

So. All right. Soon to go down the rabbit hole of Hawaiian meatloaf.

Yeah, there you go. We're just thinking about Motley Blue Pineapple, you know. Pairs well with meatloaf.

Keep it in the cider, not in the meatloaf. Yeah. All right.

So now you're in Lakeville. Yeah. And you're working on the transition to Buffalo.

Yeah. Now, we haven't talked about that. How did that come to be? So basically, we had a little bit of distribution in the Buffalo area, but we were self distributing everywhere else.

And we decided maybe it'd be smarter if we just got our own rep and kind of just did it on our own. So we hired a really cool girl, Justine. She's pretty rad.

She does freelance design and stuff now. So unfortunately, she's not with us. But come back, Justine.

We miss you. But she came kind of out guns blazing and got us in some really solid accounts. And then she was like, we should open a tasting room up here.

It would do really well. There's not that much cider. And so I was like, yeah, whatever.

I mean, we just picked a